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@Riot - changes that realy are needed about this game

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Lamcho

Junior Member

02-01-2015

Hello, guys,
I just had "one of those games". I was playing in party at that time and at the end my friend just uninstalled his game. It is sad fact that he is not my first friend that uninstalls his game this month!
My skin have gotten thick trough the years of playing and rarely something makes me angry, however most players just come to play and "relax" after a hard day and being trolled on game after game is not really the best way to enjoy your evening. I had more than 20 people playing almost every evening, away online, now they are all gone because of trolls, AFKs and extremely negative experience. So Riot please read this suggestions (I'll be posting them as comments because the system doesn't allow me to post them at once)


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Lamcho

Junior Member

02-01-2015

Penalties
Does such thing even exist right now? You probably have to quit more than 40 out of 45 games to be punished for afk. You can curse and swear and suicide as much as you want and you will never get banned. I hate to admit but i have had moments where i lose my mind and flame at people game after game for being bad but i didn't get banned even for an hour. I wish there was some penalty at that time telling me, "stop playing for 3 hours, come down". I've never even seen a person with disabled chat.
Currently penalties are not existent and everybody can do as he wishes!


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Lamcho

Junior Member

02-01-2015

Player evaluation
When you lose a game that you think you deserved to win it gets to you, some players get really tilt after a game like that, but when you win a game you don't feel that much satisfaction. I think the way your performance is evaluated is not really good enough for a game like LoL. Look at Dota 1, look how much LoL has evolved, game play, champions, champion mechanics, graphics, game modes, sounds and so much more, and still at the end you are evaluated only by LOSE and WIN. Please tell me is that normal and how do you imagine player losing his Nth promo with score 18/1/25 that will say "Its ok, I have to improve so i can get promoted in silver"? He will rage and he will fill bad and he will get tilted.
Riot should start analyzing game data better and give the players a milestone rewards system where you can see
- you used your trinket 2 times during the game, you will not get 5 points..
- you killed 0 enemy wards, you will not get 5 points (well this can be a problem, some games there are no wards to kill so... )
- you have 300 damage to turrets this game you will not get 3 points
- you have done 40% of your team's overall damage to champions, you will get extra 5 points
- you have done 28000 damage to drake and baron, you will get extra 2 points
- you have 8 CS first 10 minutes as ADC you will not get 5 points
- you have 0.2 KDA (2/15/1) you will not get 5 points
etc.
AFK players can receive 20% (or other value) of the points lost by the other players (instead of 5 players losing 20 points in case of one afk 4 player will lose 16 and the afk player 36).
I've thought only 5 minutes or so about this simple criteria so imagine what a team of experienced game designers can do for a week. This way you can minimize your loses, get a few good pointers what to improve on and feel correctly estimated which will be way better than the current system telling you: "You just lost, you are equally bad as the player who didn't buy trinket because he didn't like 'spoilers' on the map".[/LIST]
So please think and suggest how we could "save" the game because in the current state it is going to hell. I'll be glad to see at least some stuff implemented mid season 5 - early season 6 and some post from riot that they are taking steps.

Otherwise i may as well suggest the "Troll it forward" protest form that will indicate it to Riot how poisonous is their game in this state and that they need to take serious steps reducing it.

So "Troll it forward" - When you lose ridiculously because of some Rambo, Supermen, Terminator players (a.k.a yolo as it gets) or AFK, or trolls, or because all your teammates are so busy flaming at you that they don't even notice they are getting killed don't report them, they wont be punished anyway instead troll next game, in champion select notify your new teammates that you are "Trolling it forward" and pick the funniest champ you can think of (Syndra and Bliz for example can make your friendly or enemy jungle scream as hard as he can), make the funniest build and just have a fun time.


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Celebloth

Senior Member

02-01-2015

Quote:
Lamcho:
Penalties
Does such thing even exist right now? You probably have to quit more than 40 out of 45 games to be punished for afk. You can curse and swear and suicide as much as you want and you will never get banned. I hate to admit but i have had moments where i lose my mind and flame at people game after game for being bad but i didn't get banned even for an hour. I wish there was some penalty at that time telling me, "stop playing for 3 hours, come down". I've never even seen a person with disabled chat.
Currently penalties are not existent and everybody can do as he wishes!


Sir, you are seriously misinformed. You have failed to research any kind of information on this matter before posting your ideas.

Search for these 2 videos, and watch them:
GDC Vault - The Science Behind Shaping Player Behavior
GDC Vault - Enhancing Sportsmanship in Online Games

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/11/red-post-collection-rewards-for.html
Quote:

Details on New LeaverBuster
Speaking of Lyte, he has posted up information on the new LeaverBuster system, which includes a new punishment for leavers and afkers.

"TL;DR We’re rolling out a new LeaverBuster system to help reduce the frequency of AFKS and leavers that is also significantly more severe in ranked games.

LeaverBuster is our system for detecting players who frequently leave games or AFK. In the past, we’ve generally erred on the side of caution, and for that reason, many of you have given us the feedback that LeaverBuster hasn’t always seemed effective and some players seemed to just switch to a smurf to dodge the leaving penalties.

With this new update, we’ve implemented a significantly more strict design while providing a clear feedback loop. Our goals are to better educate players that AFKing or leaving a game is not acceptable in League, and punish leavers faster and more severely.

The first time a player leaves a game, they’ll see a pop-up explaining that leaving is not okay and then have to manually agree to not leave future games. If they continue to ruin other players’ experiences, they’ll enter lower-priority matchmaking for a number of games. While in low priority queue, players will experience queue times that are 5, 10, even 20 minutes longer than a player who hasn't left games.

Players will know how many games they have in lower-priority, and if they join a premade group, that group will be notified they are playing with a chronic AFK/leaver and they’ll face the same lower-priority time penalty.

While we hope it doesn’t ever happen, but if a player fails to stop AFKing or leaving while in lower-priority matchmaking, continued offenses will result in permanent bans.

I'm happy to answer any questions about the system, as it is now live on the PBE."

When asked if the system will trigger when only reconnecting, Lyte clarified:

"If you reconnect to the game and finish the game, it shouldn't affect you. However, if it takes you 20 minutes to reconnect to the game and you basically were "AFK," then you'll still receive a penalty."

He continued:

"When players crash mid-game and never come back, it's still considered a "leave." So the system includes that type of behaviors."

As for disconnections that are unintentional, Lyte noted:

"Unfortunately, players with internet connections DCing are still ruining the entire match for 4-9 other players in the game.

Think about your own experiences with a leaver and being forced to play 4v5: do you feel better or is the game enjoyable because you know the player left due to a DC?"

When asked if this new system is more aggressive in ranked, Lyte noted:

"Basically, leaving in Ranked is considered "more severe" by the system and leaving even once in Ranked can result in penalties."


An other link for you to read on the matter:
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/01/red-post-collection-underworld-poro.html


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Adrenalotr

Senior Member

02-01-2015

Quote:
Lamcho:
Penalties
Does such thing even exist right now? You probably have to quit more than 40 out of 45 games to be punished for afk. You can curse and swear and suicide as much as you want and you will never get banned. I hate to admit but i have had moments where i lose my mind and flame at people game after game for being bad but i didn't get banned even for an hour. I wish there was some penalty at that time telling me, "stop playing for 3 hours, come down". I've never even seen a person with disabled chat.
Currently penalties are not existent and everybody can do as he wishes!


People are complaining about chat restriction from "just" making jokes at their teammates or enemies expense, or about their low priority queue from "maybe disconnecting once".

And neither of these punishments are visible to you. The only way you would know that they're _not_ chat restricted is if they post more than the chat restriction's allotted chat entries. And you have no idea whether someone just spent 20 additional minutes in the low priority queue before getting matched with you.

If you're asking for changes, you should first figure out what's actually happening right now, and not make claims that Riot aren't doing things that others are frequently complaining about Riot actually doing to them.


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Adrenalotr

Senior Member

02-01-2015

Quote:
Lamcho:
Player evaluation
When you lose a game that you think you deserved to win it gets to you, some players get really tilt after a game like that, but when you win a game you don't feel that much satisfaction. I think the way your performance is evaluated is not really good enough for a game like LoL. Look at Dota 1, look how much LoL has evolved, game play, champions, champion mechanics, graphics, game modes, sounds and so much more, and still at the end you are evaluated only by LOSE and WIN. Please tell me is that normal and how do you imagine player losing his Nth promo with score 18/1/25 that will say "Its ok, I have to improve so i can get promoted in silver"? He will rage and he will fill bad and he will get tilted.


Players always feel like they deserve to win. If they didn't win lane, it was because they were hard countered. If they won lane, it's because someone on the team fed. If they truly end with a score of 18/1/25, then they should have carried harder, transferred their lead to their teammates and into objectives. KDA doesn't win games; objectives do.

If you can't win a game where you have a score that good, you're seriously lacking strategy skills. This is a team game. If you can't work with your team to win the game, you shouldn't win the game.

Quote:
Riot should start analyzing game data better and give the players a milestone rewards system where you can see
- you used your trinket 2 times during the game, you will not get 5 points..
- you killed 0 enemy wards, you will not get 5 points (well this can be a problem, some games there are no wards to kill so... )
- you have 300 damage to turrets this game you will not get 3 points
- you have done 40% of your team's overall damage to champions, you will get extra 5 points
- you have done 28000 damage to drake and baron, you will get extra 2 points
- you have 8 CS first 10 minutes as ADC you will not get 5 points
- you have 0.2 KDA (2/15/1) you will not get 5 points
etc.
AFK players can receive 20% (or other value) of the points lost by the other players (instead of 5 players losing 20 points in case of one afk 4 player will lose 16 and the afk player 36).
I've thought only 5 minutes or so about this simple criteria so imagine what a team of experienced game designers can do for a week. This way you can minimize your loses, get a few good pointers what to improve on and feel correctly estimated which will be way better than the current system telling you: "You just lost, you are equally bad as the player who didn't buy trinket because he didn't like 'spoilers' on the map".[/LIST]


1) There's a difference between using the trinket and using it effectively. How would the system know whether using the red trinket is effective if it doesn't kill wards? What if it was only used to ensure a bush _wasn't_ warded? Yellow trinket can ward fountain just as much as it can ward dragon. Also, what if Lee only uses it for ward hops and not for vision, is it still used acceptably?

2) You recognize this problem yourself: no enemy wards to kill, no ward kills. Should the system make it a percentage of enemy wards killed? How about those cases when the enemy has someone warding their own fountain just to mess with your stats or get their yellow trinket stats better?

3) Damage to turrets is a terrible metric. If you set up a slow push with minion waves, you don't get turret damage points, whereas if you run up to turret with no vision and do damage on it before getting executed (or killed), you get rewarded. That's not good.

4) Percentage of you team's total damage to champions means junglers and supports are, once again, getting screwed by the system.

5) Damage to dragon and baron means nothing if the enemy smite-steals them. And again, supports get screwed by the system.

6) This is the first point that's conditional enough to maybe work, but you can have a low cs for many different reasons, some of which are already handled by other systems. Additionally, this punishes adcs that get zoned out of cs by an effective enemy bot lane and incentivizes risky plays that might get them killed. Should they risk free damage in order to get sufficient cs to not get screwed by this system?

7) You can actually be effective despite a terrible KDA. A proxy-farming or splitpushing champ can draw the enemy jungler to their lane, relieving jungler pressure elsewhere on the map. As such, he'd likely end up with a bad KDA, but is still being a useful member of the team. This punishes such tactics and essentially enforces the current meta.

You'd have to consider that a team of experienced game designers will find plenty of flaws with things like this, and would rather work on more worthwhile systems. What ultimately matters in this game is whether your actions help the team win or lose, and criteria like this aren't a metric on how successfully you contribute to the team. Rather, it measures very specific things that incentivizes very specific actions. It means that players might start taking dragon simply for the damage points rather than actually when there's a good chance of taking it. it distracts players from the objectives on the game and essentially gives them a bunch of minigames to complete instead. That's not good design.

Quote:
So please think and suggest how we could "save" the game because in the current state it is going to hell. I'll be glad to see at least some stuff implemented mid season 5 - early season 6 and some post from riot that they are taking steps.


I've thought of a few ways, and have detailed those in my thread over the course of almost a year. Going over them, now that I'm done with that thread, I see some of them as flawed, because my understanding of the interactions between players has developed, and my knowledge of Riot's systems has improved. Likewise, the ideas you've presented so far have flaws too, and spending more than 5 minutes on them would likely have led to you realize that.

Quote:
Otherwise i may as well suggest the "Troll it forward" protest form that will indicate it to Riot how poisonous is their game in this state and that they need to take serious steps reducing it.

So "Troll it forward" - When you lose ridiculously because of some Rambo, Supermen, Terminator players (a.k.a yolo as it gets) or AFK, or trolls, or because all your teammates are so busy flaming at you that they don't even notice they are getting killed don't report them, they wont be punished anyway instead troll next game, in champion select notify your new teammates that you are "Trolling it forward" and pick the funniest champ you can think of (Syndra and Bliz for example can make your friendly or enemy jungle scream as hard as he can), make the funniest build and just have a fun time.


Are you even listening to yourself? Your solution to make the game better is to encourage people to intentionally make it worse. You're saying that if you have a bad experience in the game, you should make the experience bad for the players in your next game, thus creating a cascade of bad behavior. All that would lead to is punishments for all the gullible players who think they're doing a good thing by doing this. Riot are trying to reduce the amount of such behavior, and you're actively encouraging people to do more of it?

This is stupid, and I struggle to take anything you wrote seriously after reading this suggestion.


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Lamcho

Junior Member

02-01-2015

Hey, thanks for your opinion guys

@Celebloth
Watched the videos and i reviewed the links you shared. What i learned was that:
- Adding "Tool tips at the start of a game" like "Characters with sunglasses take 1 less damage from Leona passive" is the greatest achievement in the fight with toxic players.
- "As of 11/13/2014, 95% of active players in 2014 have never received a punishment of any kind."
I'm sorry but that is confirming my point, is not rocket science to see the heart of the problem.
When you play Diablo for example, people also have a bad day, but they don't rage at each other there, when i get a great legendary/set item and post it in chat i never get "Noob", "Lucker", "F.. u" and etc. rage becomes an issue when you add an intensive that require multiple people doing equally well and it becomes even bigger issue when these people don't know each other. So there is no point investing 10 million dollars into research for a pen that can write in space... you can always use a pencil, just reduce the global reward and introduce little personalized rewards that will act like a pointers how to do better. While doing that invest more resources in pattern recognition and data analysis and improve the MMR rating system. When you can evaluate player at least somewhat successful you can start making way better teams, somewhere in the future you can even may be match players by play style aggressive/passive champion preferences and etc.
Also its always funny to me when somebody post "Even you ware XX/XX/XX and did this and this .. you could do this thing and this thing.. and this thing so your team can win.". I'll put you in a football team with 9 (1 is AFK of course) mentally ill people (sorry for that, just couldn't help myself) against 11 players good as you are. Please tell me what is the chance of you wining that football game?

@Adrenalotr
As i said 95% of all LoL player are not punished even once, for god sake i had an issue with my ISP for 2 weeks every 3rd or so game i was disconnecting for 20 minutes i got the "I promise i'll not leave" warning and that was it.

Quote:
transferred their lead to their teammates

We are talking about people that don't even know what the overall strategy is in the game, when they fight they don't see friendly vs enemy champion count, they don't fight for objective, they don't watch the mini map for flag attacks, they don't even know what their champion role is in the game. They fight for the good filling that they are almighty and powerful and when they die and realize they are not they flame.

Quote:
If you can't win a game where you have a score that good, you're seriously lacking strategy skills

I'm punting you in the same football game with the same rules, please share your strategy with me.

Quote:
1) There's a difference between using the trinket and using it effectively.

Is it better than not buying one at all, or buying it and using it once?
I think at least it is a step forward and even if you are initially spamming it just for the points, when you are in the mood you will use it properly and you might as well like it and keep using it in future games.

2 - 7
Yes that is merely a suggestion or example than a concrete statement, the idea is to point the players to what they are doing wrong while giving them a better evaluation a reason to "Why am i always punished". Sure you can implement a strategies that will not fulfill all the criteria, so there can be a maximum 8 out of 10, 12 out of 15 or something else so you can sacrifice some of them but not all. The role of such system is to relieve the pressure that cause all the flame in bronze to platinum and leave diamond and above as they are.

Quote:
I've thought of a few ways, and have detailed those in my thread over the course of almost a year. Going over them, now that I'm done with that thread, I see some of them as flawed, because my understanding of the interactions between players has developed, and my knowledge of Riot's systems has improved. Likewise, the ideas you've presented so far have flaws too, and spending more than 5 minutes on them would likely have led to you realize that.

You have to have a very tight suggestion -> feedback loop, no idea is perfect my it self you always need to iterate over it many times, however my hope is that Riot recognize the importance of the correct player evaluation and toxic reduction so they can take steps into it.

Quote:
Are you even listening to yourself? Your solution to make the game better is to encourage people to intentionally make it worse. You're saying that if you have a bad experience in the game, you should make the experience bad for the players in your next game, thus creating a cascade of bad behavior. All that would lead to is punishments for all the gullible players who think they're doing a good thing by doing this. Riot are trying to reduce the amount of such behavior, and you're actively encouraging people to do more of it?

This is stupid, and I struggle to take anything you wrote seriously after reading this suggestion.

I know it is a little out there but,
1) It is better to take a step back when you lose your mind, go have unconventional fun (it is important to warn your team at the begining) even in ARAM if you whant, have some fun, clear your mind and focus again. It is better than tilting for 5 games and making a hell for everybody else in your team.
2) Breaking the system is the best way to prove the system is flawed.
3) Oh well I know it is realy is bad suggestion, but it is romantic in a way. If everybody catch on i'll have far more normal games than i have now just for the fun of it, relaxing and not trying to win at any cost, enjoying all kinds of wombo combo troll teams that ware never possible before.


So after all that the point is the same, my friends are not playing any more because of negative experience, Riot please my way or any other way any changes will be appreciated.

Thank you,
Cheers


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Celebloth

Senior Member

02-01-2015

Quote:
Lamcho:
Hey, thanks for your opinion guys

@Celebloth
Watched the videos and i reviewed the links you shared. What i learned was that:
- Adding "Tool tips at the start of a game" like "Characters with sunglasses take 1 less damage from Leona passive" is the greatest achievement in the fight with toxic players.
- "As of 11/13/2014, 95% of active players in 2014 have never received a punishment of any kind."
I'm sorry but that is confirming my point, is not rocket science to see the heart of the problem.
When you play Diablo for example, people also have a bad day, but they don't rage at each other there, when i get a great legendary/set item and post it in chat i never get "Noob", "Lucker", "F.. u" and etc. rage becomes an issue when you add an intensive that require multiple people doing equally well and it becomes even bigger issue when these people don't know each other. So there is no point investing 10 million dollars into research for a pen that can write in space... you can always use a pencil, just reduce the global reward and introduce little personalized rewards that will act like a pointers how to do better. While doing that invest more resources in pattern recognition and data analysis and improve the MMR rating system. When you can evaluate player at least somewhat successful you can start making way better teams, somewhere in the future you can even may be match players by play style aggressive/passive champion preferences and etc.
Also its always funny to me when somebody post "Even you ware XX/XX/XX and did this and this .. you could do this thing and this thing.. and this thing so your team can win.". I'll put you in a football team with 9 (1 is AFK of course) mentally ill people (sorry for that, just couldn't help myself) against 11 players good as you are. Please tell me what is the chance of you wining that football game?


Yay someone watched them!

Well those tool tips, if you have understood those correctly are meant to "play" with the players and see how they react. There are other studies out there, like the BBC Horizon Do you see what I see scientific movie, in which they proved that the players playing in red jerseys are winning more, and are being more confident. ( I would have to watch the entire movie, will happen later, but maybe you could download it, it is pretty interesting.)

I have no experience with Diablo, so I can't really relate to that.

What Lyte means there is that these players are generally good, and such behaviour is not often seen from them, and it is just a "flip of the table". Which can happen to any of us. Some write it down, some are on voice chat, thus they not neccessarily.
The other day, I was going with my usual full team, we were on mumble, my adc has said something not very positive to me, no cursing or what so ever, but still, made me really mad, and stopped focusing on the game anymore. That game was already kinda lost anyway, but that didn't help. I asked him later what's wrong, cos he is usually not like that, and he said over-time, stress at work. What I was trying to say, that it can happen, even if you don't mean it.

And no, you can't use pencil on a spacecraft, because the graphite is flammable, and the NASA wanted all flammable stuff out of the space ships. That is a common misconception.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/

In the Q&A he answered for this question to put similar mindset of people together to be a possibility.

Well, if you had a good score, and you failed to take that advantage to the other lanes, then you have failed, and well deserved to lose, just like those who failed their lanes. Also, if you have won your lane hard, you have time to roam, and gank other lanes, if you have teleport, things get even better. Just don't forget, that the whole team is winning and not just one player.

Top laners often forget about the rest of the team and be like, I need more stacks on Nasus Q, and when they have enough and come to the first teamfight the game has been over for a logn while. (Sorry, I don't want to generalize, this is what I see when we fail, because our top laner forgot himself on top xD )

How would you know that the other 11 were as good as me? They could be worse or better, they could have more experience on the given champion, they could be hard counter to yours, or even if you know how to play against them they are too agressive which you can't handle that well yet?

You are not supposed to win all your games, it is more like 50-50% If you started winning, you are most likely to have games that you are going to lose in the near future.

@Adrenalotr
Thanks, I knew you would write down all those stuff


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Adrenalotr

Senior Member

02-02-2015

Quote:
Lamcho:

Also its always funny to me when somebody post "Even you ware XX/XX/XX and did this and this .. you could do this thing and this thing.. and this thing so your team can win.". I'll put you in a football team with 9 (1 is AFK of course) mentally ill people (sorry for that, just couldn't help myself) against 11 players good as you are. Please tell me what is the chance of you wining that football game?


The odds of being matched with 4 players who are toxic while there is none of the enemy team is 4% (assuming 4 toxic players in the pool, which is also unlikely). I'm okay with those odds, because it will, on average, happen to me once every 25 games _where there are 4 toxic players_. So not very often.

Getting 4 such players on the enemy team is 9% in the same scenario. You're more likely to benefit from the "mentally ill people" in the game than you are from losing because of them.

Quote:
@Adrenalotr
As i said 95% of all LoL player are not punished even once, for god sake i had an issue with my ISP for 2 weeks every 3rd or so game i was disconnecting for 20 minutes i got the "I promise i'll not leave" warning and that was it.


That may be the case for players. But then they afk once for "like 2 minutes" because they "had to" do something else, and then they post here about how unfair LeaverBuster is, because they "never" leave except that one time. I also don't know how LeaverBuster is calibrated to treat different scenarios.

Quote:
We are talking about people that don't even know what the overall strategy is in the game, when they fight they don't see friendly vs enemy champion count, they don't fight for objective, they don't watch the mini map for flag attacks, they don't even know what their champion role is in the game. They fight for the good filling that they are almighty and powerful and when they die and realize they are not they flame.


Characterizing your entire team as stupid is rarely accurate, and instead suggests difficulty recognizing your own mistakes.

Also, every problem your teammates have, your enemies are just as likely to have. You're matched with 9 other player and teams created almost arbitrarily since the 9 players are all from the same MMR level. In other words, your opponents are, on average, just as stupid/smart/toxic/nice as your teammates. We already covered how unlikely it is that

Quote:
I'm punting you in the same football game with the same rules, please share your strategy with me.


Disregarding cs, which you should have a lot of anyway, by the time your score is a quarter of the way to that 18/1/25 (ie around 5/0/6), you have a gold lead of more than 2000g, plus an exp advantage. That's almost a full item ahead of the enemy. In terms of HP, it's two Giant's Belts, or 800hp. In terms of damage, it's a BFS and a longsword or two, or 65AD. That's quite an advantage.

At that point, you should be knocking on the enemy's towers, because there's no way they can fight you alone, and if you play a champ that's difficult to chase due to their mobility (Jax, Lee, LB) or anti-chase kit (Teemo, Singed), you should have no problems pushing to their inhibitor turret. Once you've taken two towers, group with whatever teammates group. Roam to help their lanes if you haven't already, ward the enemy jungle, take more towers, take dragons. At that point, your whole team should be ahead. Now you just have to kill most of the enemy team and then walk up to a tower and start hitting it in order to get to the inhibs. Once an inhib is down, you just repeat this. Kill most of the enemy team, take down a tower and an inhib. Eventually, even if your team wouldn't enter the enemy base, there will be enough super minions to destroy it.

However, sitting in your own lane for the whole game complaining about how great your KDA is will not take objectives for your team, and will probably just annoy your teammates into muting you, thus neutralizing any of your attempts to use the chat to call everyone to group. Or they might ignore you out of spite. This is why your behavior is just as important as your score. If you have a bad score but good behavior, you can be ignored. If you have a good score but bad behavior, you can be muted. If your score is okay and your behavior is okay, you can get the team to group. You just have to do it right.

Quote:
Is it better than not buying one at all, or buying it and using it once?
I think at least it is a step forward and even if you are initially spamming it just for the points, when you are in the mood you will use it properly and you might as well like it and keep using it in future games.

2 - 7
Yes that is merely a suggestion or example than a concrete statement, the idea is to point the players to what they are doing wrong while giving them a better evaluation a reason to "Why am i always punished". Sure you can implement a strategies that will not fulfill all the criteria, so there can be a maximum 8 out of 10, 12 out of 15 or something else so you can sacrifice some of them but not all. The role of such system is to relieve the pressure that cause all the flame in bronze to platinum and leave diamond and above as they are.


The things that cause flame are usually people's egos, and that won't change with point criteria like this. I think it'll even have the opposite effect.

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You have to have a very tight suggestion -> feedback loop, no idea is perfect my it self you always need to iterate over it many times, however my hope is that Riot recognize the importance of the correct player evaluation and toxic reduction so they can take steps into it.


They're taking steps to reduce toxicity all the time. What you have to understand is that not every instance of bad behavior is actually toxic players. The majority of bad behavior comes from generally well-behaved or neutral players, because there's a lot more of them. If 10% of players have a bad day, that means you'll, on average, have one of those in every game. Their bad day can influence others who are having a bad matchup, and thus you'll see more negative behavior than there are toxic players. Punishing these players will just make them more annoyed, and more negative.

Your list of suggestions had nothing to do with bad behavior and everything to do with evaluating how good a player is (even if it wouldn't work). Are you trying to curb bad behavior or bad players, because those are two very different problems. Also, bad player is relative. A bad matchup, a position you're not comfortable in, or a fed enemy can all mess up your game a lot, making your stats suggest you're a much worse player than you really are. And vice versa, a favorable lane matchup, on a champ you're good at in a position you're good at, with a team that doesn't misbehave, can give you a much better score than you really deserve. So a system evaluating players would have to be calibrated for each role... which makes players that play off-meta picks much more difficult to evaluate.

It's hardly worth the resources to do this when there's a much easier metric to evaluate players by: whether they win games or not.

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I know it is a little out there but,
1) It is better to take a step back when you lose your mind, go have unconventional fun (it is important to warn your team at the begining) even in ARAM if you whant, have some fun, clear your mind and focus again. It is better than tilting for 5 games and making a hell for everybody else in your team.
2) Breaking the system is the best way to prove the system is flawed.
3) Oh well I know it is realy is bad suggestion, but it is romantic in a way. If everybody catch on i'll have far more normal games than i have now just for the fun of it, relaxing and not trying to win at any cost, enjoying all kinds of wombo combo troll teams that ware never possible before.


1) I agree. But this can't be done at your teammates' expense either. You can have fun without messing someone's game up. There's a difference between taking a troll pick and playing it seriously, and taking at troll pick and spending half the game spamming emotes in the baron pit.

2) Yes and no. What you should be doing is find a way to break the system and notify Riot of it. That's how white hat hackers do it. Find the problem, prove the problem, notify the people in charge. Encouraging people to break rules is generally no a good thing, especially as you have no authority to dispel any punishment Riot gives to them.

3) While the meta should not be so strictly adhered to as some would suggest, there's a reason it exists. And you wouldn't get the wombo combo troll teams you want, either. You'd get people taking their favorite champ to their favorite lane and arguing with everyone else about who was supposed to go there. You'd get people anticipating these kinds of trolling, and thus banning any champs those players say they want to play. You'd get more angry players, and thus more negative behavior. You wouldn't get more fun, you'd get more frustration.

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So after all that the point is the same, my friends are not playing any more because of negative experience, Riot please my way or any other way any changes will be appreciated.


You should post your ideas, once they're refined to the point where they're not stupid, somewhere Riot might actually see them. I would suggest the NA boards or the front page of the game's subreddit. Your friends are doing the right thing. If the game isn't enjoyable, for whatever reason, they shouldn't play it. If enough players, without any "stop playing lol" campaign, start leaving the game, Riot would investigate and take more measures to solve whatever issue those players had.


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Lamcho

Junior Member

02-02-2015

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject, however i feel like this is getting way off topic. The simple truth is this:
I had 7 loses in my placement series
- 4 Games with at least 1 AFK player (some times more than one)
- 1 Game with 3 junglers
- 1 Game with 2 ADCs
- 1 game that i lost with a normal team

I lost over 500 MMR.
I kept playing.
I think I won almost all my normal matches (surprise surprise only couple of AFKs), but when get a promo always something happens:
- 80% of the time AKF player!
- We manged to lose a game with team score like 28/3 because all players got fed and started fighting alone vs their whole team, nothing I said made any difference.
- We smashed an enemy team really hard at some point my internet connection failed for a couple of minutes and when it turned back on my team had won the game, but i was marked as leaver and i.e. lost the game. (bad coincidence but it also adds up)

I kept playing.
I got to my big promo between divisions
First game - We started great, overconfidence cost my teammates the game again.
Second game - I bareeeeely won 4v5
Third game - Our top guy was afk (nothing surprising there) well at the end he came back to trow some fast kills for the enemy team. That is the last match overview: http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1092537534/22875518
I admit the game is one of my bad performances, i got a little titled form yet another afk player and didn't tried at all to win my lane, gave easy firstblood, after that i got tilted even harder, made some questionable decisions, bought even more questionable items, didn't even bother to swap my ticket and etc, but what it really matters sometimes you cant recover from state of frustration so easy, i'm not Diamond 1 player that can win a game like this.

And still here I am playing... i'll be fine tomorrow and i'll continue. But what about the all other players that hate this game in their bones just because of moments like that, people remember this moments, and they feel harmed and frustrated.
My question is how the system is protecting them? How is the system making them feel better?
The short answer - it is not. People telling you "You didn't do better enough" are not really helping either.
The system need to make a player feel compensated for the wrongs did to him.