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AFK players ruin the game!

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iupli

Junior Member

02-02-2015

So basically i can't surrender because someone who isn't involved in the game thinks i can win. Do you think that is fair or does it even make sense to you? Concerning the afk situation, i am positive that the afk because "they've had enough" are the majority.


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Adrenalotr

Senior Member

02-02-2015

Ragequitters and afkers are detected by LeaverBuster. Even moving around in fountain is detected. My brother was derping around in the fountain because he was fed up with the team, and that got him the LeaverBuster alert which he had to agree to. besides, with the improvements to LeaverBuster, leavers will be much more rare than they were last season, _especially_ if you're right about them being players who've simply had enough of a game.

Distracting players at the 10-minute mark with a surrender vote is only going to destroy team morale. 10 minutes into the game, you'd all have to have fed like crazy to be at an unrecoverable disadvantage. And that's assuming there aren't two players on the team who still believe you can win. What if there are? Are you then going to argue with them about how the game is lost and how they should vote? That will only increase the amount of distracting chat and draw focus away from farming up and playing well.

You can bully players into leaving in a lot of ways. I got bullied out of my lane once by my team, because we had an obstinate player who decided that mid was his lane. So I went top, into a bad matchup, which I promptly lost and got blamed to the point of leaving the game. That's a real possibility. All you need to do to achieve it is to target a player with a bad score to demoralize, get the rest of the team to flame him too, and he might leave. If a leaver detector would grant you a free surrender vote in this case, the system would be rewarding that kind of behavior, and that's bad design.

Very few games are decided in the first 10 minutes anyway, and there's always a chance that the enemy team will throw. You might have stronger teamfight capability, you might have better rotations, you might have a better late-game team comp. These are all factors that aren't evident until later in the game, but it means that teams that pick an early game comp can beat a late-game comp into surrendering long before the late-game comp outscale the early-game comp.

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Besides, all of this is moot because just about every scenario you've suggested actually benefits you and other players who aren't leavers. Consider that if there is one leaver in the pool of 10 players pulled together into a game, the odds are higher than he'll land on the enemy team than on yours. That means that in a hundred such games, you would expect to see ten games more with the leaver on the enemy team. It might not be the most fun game for them, but they can still win, and feel awesome about that. Isn't that fun? Winning against the odds?


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LillimKnight

Junior Member

02-02-2015

Game loss cause of trolls and afks are too damn high!


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Adrenalotr

Senior Member

02-02-2015

Quote:
LillimKnight:
Game loss cause of trolls and afks are too damn high!


I completely agree. it especially sucks for the enemy team who statistically get 55% of the trolls whereas my team only gets 45% of them.


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iupli

Junior Member

02-03-2015

A game with a troll is a bad game no matter what team he is on. That's why i want to summaryly dismiss games with trolls.


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Adrenalotr

Senior Member

02-03-2015

Quote:
iupli:
A game with a troll is a bad game no matter what team he is on. That's why i want to summaryly dismiss games with trolls.


The problem with that is that everyone has a different idea of what a troll is. Twisted Fate adc, troll or off-meta? Kog mid? Lulu top? Nidalee jungle? Double adc? No adc? All it takes is one strange pick and some players will start complaining about trolls. Others won't care about those things, but will be really upset if the adc takes farm from the jungle, if the jungler doesn't gank their lane but instead camps another lane, if the jungler lane taxes without a successful gank, if mid doesn't get blue... And then there are those complaining about other players' builds. Or decision to splitpush. And afterwards, they're all complaining about trolls, despite that none of these examples are actually trolls.

So you'd have plenty of players wanting to quit a game due to someone else doing something unconventional, and the unconventional players get lumped with people who sabotage games just to see people's reactions. That's not good.

Identifying actual trolls by means other than how conventional their pick, build or playstyle is could work, and restricting those from ranked until they can behave appropriately would be nice. But the definition of troll has to be very narrow and specific in order to work, or else it's enforcing the meta. But the best way to do that is to allow for more control over and accountability for what happens in Champ Select, since thats usually where troll problems start. Unless you're Bronze, in which case players troll just because you "ks" some cs or something.


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iupli

Junior Member

02-03-2015

In my oppinion trolls are people who hurt the team. by playing badly on purpose, by not assisting allies in obvious situations, afk, intentional feed, not respecting pick order. if you are veigar firstpick and someone from lastpick takes irelia mid instead of jungle, she is a troll. the game should be dismissed and irelia banned for 30 mins to rethink her atitude. just make a vote between the 9 other players involved, and if 6-7 of 9 ppl agree she is the troll, bye bye irelia. This is an example specifically for not respecting the pick order.


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Adrenalotr

Senior Member

02-03-2015

The textbook definition of troll is someone that does something bad, intentionally, for a reaction. Trawling for reactions instead of fish, as the word is supposed to have originated. Obstinate players and bullies aren't trolls, they're a different breed of problematic players. But no less difficult to play with, and no less important to deal with.

Quote:
just make a vote between the 9 other players involved, and if 6-7 of 9 ppl agree she is the troll, bye bye irelia.


No, this is bad design. Dismissed suggests there would be no LP loss, and likewise no LP gain (otherwise the system would have to have another clamping system to ensure appropriate MMR for new divisions). Why would an enemy team support ending a game they don't gain a victory from, if they were winning?

Assume 7 players have to agree. That means that if 3 players disagree, it doesn't matter. How are you going to get enemy team members to agree?

Assume 5 players have to agree. That means you still need someone on the enemy team to agree, multiple members of the enemy team if the troll has a premade buddy with him.

I would much rather see these things not even start. If there's a conflict in Champ Select, it should be solved in Champ Select. But not with a votekick system, since that is easily abused. There has been talk of a Team Builder like feature for ranked. I feel it's a bad idea, since part of Draft is being able to adapt to bans and different positions, but I'm sure there's an implementation of it that would satisfy players like me while also reducing the amount of trouble in Champ Select. The questions is just whether Riot manage to come up with that or not.


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iupli

Junior Member

02-04-2015

In this case dismissed means you surrender just as the game starts or extremely early, you lose LP just as much as any other game and the enemy team will also win LP like any other win. I believe that the collective you played with should be able to punish you, not some random stranger in the tribunal who can't see your plays, only your chat. You may think this will be abused, but it won't. The enemyes won't just punish one of your teammembers for no reason.

To answer you previous statement concerning prventing trolling, i ask you this: why do you think people don't kill each other left and right? Is it because killing is wrong? Because of education? Or is it because if you kill someone you will probably get caught and go to prison? If you create a system in which not respecting the rules allmost everytime gets you punished, the law will be respected. In my system, when a troll will not respect the pick order, the overall outcome of his action will be
1.sat down in front of the computer -> no fun yet, but expectations for fun
2.argued on chat he is mid or troll -> no fun yet, but he can't wait to outfarm the other midder / bully him into leaving mid
3.wait for the game to start (loading) -> this is no fun
4.as the game starts, and he is mid with his teammate, the game pauses for 30 sec as the 9 other players vote, and after that, he recieves a message like "the majority of players in this game decided that you did not respect the pick order, therefore you are banned for 30 mins and this game will count as a lose." -> this will be absolutely no fun

Overall -> 10 minutes spent arguing, expecting to have fun and no fun, +30 minutes to do what? would you do this again?

Btw, the main problem with the tribunal is that the troll cannot mentally make a connection between his actions and his punishments.


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TheRuhtinas

Member

02-04-2015

Still becomes problematic.Premade abuse?Someone wants to try something new but gets punch to the face?And how on earth will enemy team know If he will troll or not when they didn't see what happened in champion selection chat?Just to mention some possible flaws.Also If the situation seems hopeless you sacrofise 3lp to leave or play game and report after.