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Xerath, the Magus Ascendant Rework on PBE Today!

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Deltajugg

Member

10-10-2013

Yay, Xelnath on EUNE, I always wanted to meet you


I am mostly a support player, but if I was asked about my top favourite champions, it would be mostly midlaners, with Xerath being at least in the top 3. As much as I didn't really think it was necessary for him to get a rework, I am excited about the upcoming changes, and would gladly give a feedback.

Passive - As much as I enjoyed having an additional armor as Xerath, preventing a quick death from AD midlaners and ADcarries, I have to say mana regeneration is much more desirable. Also I like that M.Pen is now permament instead of activated by W, so good feelings about the passive, as much as it will change my approach towards AD champs.
Q- I don't know about this ability. With its short casting time it was still quite easy to avoid before, and now its range is relatively low on insta-cast, not to mention the long charge time to grant similar range to the previous one. At least it can be redirected straight before cast to fool the opponent, so that seems fine.
W- good to have his previous ultimate as separate ability + slow will be definitely useful.
E- When I first read about this ability I was certain it will be a pass-through skillshot (something like Lulu's Q or something) that stuns anyone hit in a certain, tight line, then it turns out it stuns first champion hit only. It is still fine, as long as it doesn't stop on minions, but I'd be more fond of the long line multi stun to catch people behind the inital target as well.
Ultimate-I like the new animation, and GAWSH how I love the range, but I've always seen Xerath as a champion with incredible magnitude of power constantly being released to the point of an overkill.

That being said, with his previous kit I just loved the fact that I use all kinds of power releasing abilities, storming the field with all kinds of skills. It always reminded me of some kind of anime (Dragon Ball-like anime) with one person constantly, furiously obliterating the enemy, starting with epic melee combo, pinning him to the ground, then releasing a barrage of energy blast, only to additionaly end it all with a finishing kamehameha. Previous Xerath kit gave an opportunity to use W's range to strike down the enemy from long range, using all of his abilities in a storm of death, pressuring the opponent even only with the fact that he's being pinned down with tons of different abilities from different angles. His typical, standard WEQRRRQ combo gave me a feeling of a real power barrage.

His current kit does grant a very nice range, but it seems like, because of self-cast silence on other abilities, it doesn't have that great feeling of overwhelming power, not to mention the charge delay on Q only deepens the flaw. It just doesn't feel anymore like a reckless release of massive energy that I really liked about his concept, because of his limitations regarding the amount and rate of power he can release. I'd prefer a previous ability concept, with mana-consuming stance that gives charges of his current R, and granting an opportunity of casting other abilities at the same time with increased range.

Besides, what I also regret that now is no more, is his delay between ultimate charges. I always thought of it as a pretty neat trick to fool an enemy into thinking I used my ultimate already, then storm them down with additional 1 or 2 charges I still had because they stay for up to 12 seconds. Sadly, with a current necessity to use the ultimate only at that certain time, he's losing a little bit of those nice mechanics.
Skins
I was always a fan of Runeborn Xerath, and honestly I don't like the changes. His previous green energy visual had a light, calm toning, and now it's very intense and aggresive, doesn't really fit into the white stones. When I look at this Xerath skin I think more of a delicate color toning, fitting to the theme of kinds like Earthrune Skarner and Marble Malphite, with his current color being just too dark. This kind of a shade is not very fitting for kinds of Thresh, and neither it is for Runeborn Xerath IMO.

As for Battlecast Xerath, I have no such opinion. It was fine before, it is fine now. Its intensity doesn't ruin its notion.


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Xelnath

Systems Designer

10-10-2013

Thank you for the detailed feedback, Deltajugg, checking it all out now.

Did you get to play him?


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Foucz

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Hi Xelnath

Overall :
- I really like his new kit as a whole i think it is more engaging than previous one but it still does the justice it still FEELS like Xerath.
- I played with his Battlecast skin there seems to be no particle's on his ult projectile also the sqares that are created during his Q look a bit out of place
- I REALLY like that there is an indication in the champion name that it has been reworked even if it was accident i think its healthy for PBE and you guys should do things like that with everything for example Ahri (NERFED)

Xerath Skillset:

-Passive:
I feel like this is the skill that needs improvment. It makes you unable to last hit if you want to get more mana and i personally think that i will get to simply ignore it if i play xerath. Much better option would be to remove or reduce the cooldown and make it so you restore mana only if you hit enemy champion. My other idea is to remake it into lux esque passive that makes you restore mana when you hit someone with your mark (increased mana for champion). For magic pen i feel like it doesnt provide any noticeable change in Xerath playstyle but it seems like you wanted to preserve his ability to melt MR this is cool but i think this passive should be tied to his ult (like olaf's bonus armor and mr). You can make values better if they happen only at lvl 6, 11 and 16 and make them feel more impactful for xerath player.

-Q
This spell feels very fluid GREAT JOB. There is one thing that makes me wonder. Would it be possible to make things like boots of swiftness and mastery that reduce slow power work on his Q ? It would give xerath choice of utility vs dmg also he could kite very well with boots of swiftness and rylai... (im a hipster build geek :P) wont even talk about how good it would be at roaming.
-W
This spell feels like wave clear/thing that you use to follow your E and then combo it with Q when enemy is already slowed. I dont see this spell do anything as standalone expect for waveclear, its not a bad thing though.
-E
Solid spell that Xerath needs has counterplay and is very decent standalone the range could be better but i understand why it is how it is.
-R
Im a diamond II player and this is how first time i used ult looked like:
1.Press R
2.Press R again to shoot missle
3.Wonder what happened
Then i read the tooltip and i felt a bit stupid ,however i did it AGAIN. Using mouse to cast a spell as someone that plays on smartcast last 3 years it was a bit too much for my brain to handle. Personally i recommend 2 changes.

1.The way the spell is controled should be bolded RED in tooltip
2.Make it so smartcast particle is shot when you press R and the form is interupted when you try to move with your mouse. For someone that uses smartcast i dont think i will ever get used to casting Xerath ult. Its not that i dont know how to use it. Its that my brain mechanically makes me use it wrong before i can even think about it. If it wont be changed i will probably not play Xerath at all.

The ult itself is great, feels great and YOU are great


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Deltajugg

Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
Xelnath:
Thank you for the detailed feedback, Deltajugg, checking it all out now.

Did you get to play him?




Sadly, my feedback is based mostly on the changes I've seen from the videos :<

Xerath looks quite fun right now with his incredible range, that really makes you think he's like a Varus for AP Mages (more like a mortar rather than sniper), but honestly, and it's my opinion only, I'd rather give up that incredible range for the purpose of swarming the enemies with a barrage of all my spells (especially because based on what I've seen on the PBE gameplay videos, Morello is going to use his NerfHammer on that range very soon :&gt.

Still, great job for you guys for making such a cool champion in the first place, and now giving him an awesome rework. You just give Taric some kit rework and VU now and I can say on my deathbed that I lived a good life xD.


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Darche

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Didn't notice that there was a thread on EUNE so I'll drop it here too:

Most names are fine. Cosmic Strike sounds cool but it suits more to Veigar, it's name should be more arcane-themed. I gave a suggestion previously which is Eldritch Blast but then again. Also Spellsphere is kinda meh, maybe Sorcery Sphere?

Q: Awesome stuff, nice visuals. Damage is solid BUT when casting in minimum range it takes a bit long time to cast it due to his animation, in other words it isn't quite instacastish. Maybe his casting animation should be faster depending on the smaller range.

W: One shot R which is great, the slow is a great bonus. Bit mana costly but considering it deals more damage on center it's quite balanced.

E: Dark Binding which stuns. You said previously that it would be actually like Ezreal's Essence Flux, you could change it to this BUT it only stuns champions.

R: The ult is... very funny to be honest. His casting animation is awesome but the missile visuals are quite lacking. Either increase the size of the missile (the blast range is fine but maybe more additional visual effects would be proper) OR make him shoot multiple missiles on the same location. Damage is fine, hardly dodgeable (but then again, so are many other skillshots and no one QQs about them. Also, Karth's ult)

Passive: At least it's useful now. No comment.

PS: It would be nice if Xerath have a recall animation. Also what happened to the voiceover you mentioned back in the "Let's talk about Xerath" thread? Would be nice to hear him having interactions with Syndra or Zilean.


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Zerthin

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Since I'm pretty weak at testing Magic penetration thingy I'll just add this:

When you play Xerath and pick 8% magic pen mastery - all that is displayed in game is 3% instead of 10% or something like that.

Other thing: His ult particles make you feel tiny and useless =)


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Hokek

Member

10-11-2013

why? why did u try destroy my favourite mid champ. low popularity doesnt mean bad hero its mean hard to play good hero


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Opteemus Prime

Recruiter

10-11-2013

Hey. So I was maining Xerath for a while, I would even go ahead and say I am pretty good with him (plat/diamond level) so I couldn't not check his new kit.

I was against remake at first, being afraid he will get more popular (as I consider one of his strenghts being a champion you don't see very often - people don't really know his power, they tend to underestimate his damage). After having played him now however - I am amazed. Here are some details on each of the skills, I didn't focus on names since I never pay much attention to them.

Let me just start by saying that I know most of the things I write about are minor buffs/QoL changes, but I know they would come with a price, like longer cooldowns/smaller base damage or ap ratios.


Passive: I like having spell pen attached on it, being always there, not just when you are rooted in place. I know it has lower % value than currently on live (speaking of lvl18/rank5 of course), but it seems to be enough to keep Xerath as 'tank killer' mage.
Mana regeneration part seems a bit... odd. It has that 10 seconds timer, but it requires no action whatsoever from you, except maybe trying to autoattack a champion when it's up, rather than minion (assuming you are mana-starved). This can force you to miss some CS, and doesn't seem very satisfying. I think it would be better if it had much lower amount of mana restored, but without time counter. Or perhaps have an additional effect when hitting a champion, like leaving a mark that does something, be it mana-leech (one can only dream), a minor slow (making it easier to hit your target with the center of W or land E - this would further improve the whole kit working as one) or perhaps very minor damage amplification.
Having it restore mana every hit would turn Xerath into a mana-machine against melee-mid champions, and Teemo knows we need some answer to these other than Ahri/very specific top laners.

Q: Initial, nonchanneled range is a bit too low I believe. I would rather see it have lower AP ratio and be more reliable without having to channel it (which seems to take forever, understandably).
A QoL improvement I’d like to suggest is having some kind of sound effect when target is hit by it, even when you don't actually see them(like Nidalee's spear). It's very satisfying, and would be also very useful in certain situations. If the channel time is to stay - is there any chance CD counter could start ticking earlier, say after it's channeled to full, and not just after it has been casted? I often kept my Q fully charged and waited for proper moment to hit it, but knowing it also puts my cooldown counter on hold is rather demotivating.
I like the cast animations very much. Sound seems to fit spell fine as well.

W: Just wow - my opinion is biased on this one because I am and have always been in love with high-rewarding skills, like Leona's ult. I love how much stronger it is if you aim perfectly, I wouldn't change a thing, except maybe the sound. It seems too far off from Xerath's ult (live version that is). You can't actually hear that blast anymore, it sounds more like some medicore spell hitting a manatee.
Animation looks nice.

E: Mixed feelings on this one - feels too much like Brand's Q. At rank5 it has 2 sec stun, just like Brand's, while also being a linear skillshot that doesn't go through minions - except it has longer cooldown, has much slower missile speed and doesn't require your target to be ablaze in order to stun it. The most painful part is that the missile is so much slower than E currently on live. You can already hide behind minions to avoid it, you don't need to give champions so much time to dodge it as well. This forces me to start the rotation with W, and then using E on already slowed target - because of huuuge damage attached to E you can't afford missing it if you are thinking of killing someone. I thought it was supposed to be other way around - stunning your target with E in order to hit perfect W (with increased damage) and proceed with the rest of the combo, but with current missile speed it's extremely hard to land that stun wihout slowing your target first, assuming your opponent is decent.

R: A-M-A-Z-I-N-G… and overpowered. At rank 3 I can simply sit in the middle and when enemies try to do Baron, pop it, get full vision on their attempt and destroy their health bars. Don’t get me wrong – I am absolutely in love with this spell. It has long cooldown to keep the power in check, requires you to actually hit 4 skillshots that don’t have the biggest area of effect damage (are dodgeable), but I am afraid it will be nerfed to the ground because of free vision part. It is INSANELY powerful – maybe not as good in 1v1 scenario as ultimate that is currently on live (live one is easier to land and doesn’t require you to be immobilized), but much more useful for your team. If you are to nerf it, don’t take away the free vision part – it is very much needed for spells with such long range. If anything I would play with cooldown/damage or perhaps take the damage reduction out or show enemies when Xerath is using that ult and where he is exactly, so he can be rushed down.

Animation is sick, sound could be louder (when landing the attacks).


Notice how the things I am complaining about are usually small ones, and, mind you, I am a very picky person – I would even find something to complain at in release Xin.
All in all – I was having a blast playing new Xerath, even though I had to do it with 200ms latency (NA PBE). You’ve done great work, Xelnath, and people who have helped you with the rework.


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Vein

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Played some normal and dominion games to test out ability mechanics and damage. First impression: negative. I will continue testing, but for now he feels very lackluster. Xelnath, I think you removed too much power from him. I know his endgame burst was very high, but now he has less damage and it is much less reliable. It's all skillshots, with low base damage, less CC and much easier to dodge. Currently I think he's gonna be really weak at high elo, where people with decent movespeed can juke the damage even from skilled xerath players with presise aim. I laned with my friend from diamond 1, he was playing ahri, a popular xerath counter. If old xerath had chance to kill ahri with his targeted mage chains+ult tick combo to stun and land damage, now decent ahri is absolutely unkillable for xerath. Just a small example, now detailed feedback on every skill:

Passive: Overwhelming Power Magic penetration per level and mana regen. I like magic penetration per level, old Locus of power used to give twice as more % magic pen, but usually W (Locus Of Power) was maxed last. Plus, it only worked with W triggered on, so uptime wasn't 100%. I guess it's an OK skill and the price to pay for 100% uptime for magic penetration. Now the mana regen part. I really don't like that it scales with maximum mana of Xerath, I honestly think buying RoA on Xerath is a bad idea, he needs Ability power as fast as possible for the burst. Tear of the goddess is a fine choice it seems with the new manacosts, but then again your damage will be extremely low. Now when you regen mana from autoattacks, you won't actually need tear for the laning phase, and for mid/late game you have bluebuff and much more damage from skills to farm/harass with less spellcasts if you purchase pure AP. SO i think percentage of xerath's max mana scaling will lead t oconfusion and non-optimal builds. Just a quick thought.

Comparing to old passive, which was giving you armor for every AP point you have - many considered this passive useless on a long-range mage, but I think it was great. It gave you the deceptivity of being fragile VS enemy ad bruiser/jungler/carry, but when in reality you took much less damage from their attacks. Due to this feature, you often didn't need a fast Seeker's Armguard and sometimes even Zhonyas in the final build, as you had innate defense stats. Now you basically replace conversion defensive passive into old utility from W and additional mana regen, which is useful on the laning phase, but doesn't give that much power in reality. Overall: small nerf to the passive imo

Q- Arcanopulse - 1st question: WHY IS THE Q CAST WITHOUT CHARGING HAS LOWER RANGE THAN BEFORE? It's MUCH easier to dodge than before. Basically, it's comparable to Lissandra Q without minion's around. He is a long range mage, and charging Q every time to harass a champion you could harass much faster with the old Q is horrible. I'm not a huge fan of the charge-up mechanic, I think it's not very useful and has a big counterplay possibility, which is not needed in xerath's case, as all his abilities are skillshots. There are 2 other champions with this mechanic, first being Vi (her movement and disrupt ability, not main damage source. Most dmg comes from W and E and autos) and Varus (Q is main damage source early-mid game for poke, then main dmg from passive, W+procs and autos).

2nd question: Why is charging up doesn't increase the damage of the skill? 230 at rank 5 is quite low for such a skillshot, which takes times to charge and is a main damage source. Overall: Q is nerfed and has a tricky mechanic that is not rewarding

Proposed changes for Q: More range without charging, slight increase in base damage OR charging up increased damage


W - Orbital/Cosmic Strike - First of all, the mechanics of the skill. Why does it take longer to apply damage than before? (Or is it due to the 200 ping on PBE servers? Xelnath clarify please) It is now much less effective at maximum range of the skill, where people will just get out of the impact radius with their movespeed alone. On top of that, it's much easier to blink/dash/flash out of it, and the damage is not that great. All this drawback and reduce of power due to the added CC on the skill, slow. Aoe slow is great, but IMO it doesn't fit the theme of Xerath.

Cooldown is very long, much harder to hit, not great damage either. Currently, Xerath rework (And the original xerath, but in much lesser state) suffers from "Viktor Syndrome" - all his abilities have long cooldowns, they require stacking both AP and cooldown reduction to be effective and have major counterplay while other AP carries have high DPS with less effort.

Proposed change - remove the slow, reduce the cooldown of the ability, slight increase of the animation and how fast is the damage applied.

E - Spellsphere - I think it's a complete copy of Ahri's Charm? Personally, I don't like this mechanic, and it surely doesn't fit xerath with his skillset. Lets compare it to the old E - Mage Chains

MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 120 / 170 / 220 / 270 (+ 80% AP) Stun duration 1.5 flat, compared to progressive current stun starting with 1 second.

A huge, huge advantage of old E over new E is consistent undodgable DPS. It has a relatively low cooldown, huge damage and reliable (long-range if needed) stun which hits over units. On high elo, this is the main non-ult damage source mid-late game that helps secure kills. Now, xerath doesn't have an on-demand 1.5 stun (together with ult cast it almost guarantees a stun) to follow-up with his burst, doesn't have a spammy undodgeable ability. I think this skill is the main problem.

Proposed change - revert the change to old mage chains mechanic, with bigger range, less base damage and scaling and a 1.25-1.5s stun.

R - Ascension - The only part of the rework that I liked. But, 150 seconds cooldown at rank 1?! It's almost double the old cooldown, used to be 80. The damage is relatively the same without AP i think, but considering it has a much longer cooldown and smaller hitbox makes this skill deal much less DPM.

Proposed change - the range is too big, the cooldown is too long. Need to balance these paremeters, and also I think it shouldn't grant vision. Only ult casts should grant vision IMO, not on the use. Probably might need faster damage applying, slower time between casts to balance it out, with the smaller hitbox might be a little too easy to dodge it.


Verdict:the rework is very raw. All-skillshot setup must be changed, needs at least 1 targeted ability. I will continue testing and post my thoughts, but for now I think he is much weaker versus high elo skilled opponents than the old one.

These are my first impressions and thoughts. In general, I feel he will be more popular, so you've achieved your goal partially, Xelnath. He maintains the feel of a long-range mage.

>>My first post with visual effects and names thoughts<< (http://forums.eune.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=5666924#post5666924)


Disclaimer: I'm a Diamond S2 and S3 D1 currently player who mains Xerath since his release and is really concerned with the rework. Other accounts: Vein @ EUW / Cox @ EUW to see my Xerath stats.


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Bibbi Is Back

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Well I am very excited for this rework but i have not tried him yet. My first impression when i look the kit is that his ult is just sort of boring. Yes you have a ton of range but it looks like his old W+R combo just with much more range.

old R was 825 (+ 180% AP)max nuke to a target with 1300 range over 3 clicks.
new R is 1000 (+180% AP) max nuke to a single target with 2900-4500 range over 4 clicks.

While range is great and feels good the spell it self is super similar to the old one.
My alternative is something like a super ultimate edition of his old W where he could just use his spells with insane range and deal damage, but have it cost A LOT of mana when you use it. Something like 10% of your mana each second but then make spells trigger the passive while in R mode. Then potentially but more damage on other his spells or just add some bonus while using it like "dealing 65/130/195 bonus damage on spells while in ult mode"

Right now he looks like a champ who got a nice kit and then an R there is just like "sweet a super range nuke" but aint really interacting with anything else on his kit. Why does he even have to be locked down ? couldn't his ult just have a cast time ? It is about as random as if we locked kogmaw down and then let him spam R's...The only reason lock-down is there atm seems to be because old xerath had it.

Just my oppinion ^^
If you have any special reasoning for why it ended with THIS ultimate (I saw you had many proto-types) Then i would like to know why ^^

As for names, Archanopulse seems fine, Energy unload for W, Energysphere for E, and Unlimited power on his R. Passive could be called energizing force