DFG vs DeathCap

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KSer and Feeder

Senior Member

13-07-2011

Why rush a Rabadon on a burst mage (Annie, Brand, etc) when u can rush a DFG and add another nuke to ur combo?

(that's not a rethorical question, it's an actual question. I know Veigar rushes DFG, why don't the other burst mages do as well?)

(btw, can u use DFG when ulti-ing with Malzh? I know u can use Ignite...)


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Kay Esss

Junior Member

13-07-2011

Rabadons is basically a core item for nearly every AP because it gives you a lot of sustainable damage and an awesome passive, which increases the AP of every further AP item even more.
DFG is not bad on Veigar because it decreases his cooldowns which are pretty high for an AP, gives you mana regen so you can lasthit with Q and an active that makes it possible to burst from full to 0 hp.


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Thelenar

Member

13-07-2011

item choice generally depend on playstyle used with a certain char, annie is more of a set us up with a bomb char and in general to get chance to use dfg would be after all her nukes making it less usefull since it does %dmg based on current hp, same kinda goes for brand as hes more poking based rather then jump in nuke.
for both u dont have a straightup stun that doesnt do dmg, for veigar u can do meteor-horizon-dfg (jus before the meteor lands) and then do either a baelful or the ult to finish, making the most of the dfg, also since u keep gaining AP with lasthiting with baelfull ure also increasing dfgs potential, this no other caster can do.
Hence most jus go for a rabadons since its a relyable damage gain.
As for malz and using DFG while ulting i doubt it works, ignite isnt really a feature that the actual char has its more like a assist ability that you as a summoner utulize while the DFG is in the chars inventory and probobl would break the channel


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KSer and Feeder

Senior Member

13-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelenar View Post
As for malz and using DFG while ulting i doubt it works, ignite isnt really a feature that the actual char has its more like a assist ability that you as a summoner utulize while the DFG is in the chars inventory and probobl would break the channel
I see, so it WOULD be viable on Malzh, but would make ur combo even harder to land since it has to be used before ulti, and so no1 uses it...

was thinking of using it on Kassadin, since u can probably land it pretty safely after R+Q before the Q land, and then finish with E and another R followed by a couple of W-enhanced AAs... and I'm pretty sure the Codex would be a better starting item to rush then the Tear I currently build :P


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Neolight

Junior Member

13-07-2011

Well actually ignite is just not breaking malz or any other channeling ult because it has no casting animation.
I can't test it as i don't own malz, but if DFG has no casting animation it shouldn't cancel the channeling ^^

about DFG vs DC
Well DFG is probably an item that you would like to buy later in the game.
First off it deals % damage. In early game the chars have let's say 1300 or 1400 hp.
this would make DFG increase your damage combo (if you start with) by 430-465 damage.
Rabadons gives you 182 AP (included passive)
in case of Annie this would increase her burst combo by:
182*(0,7+0,75+0,8)=409 damage + tibbers aoe is dealing 36,4 damage more
DFG(60ap):
60*(0,7+0,75+0,8)+440=575 damage + tibbers aoe is dealing 12 damage more

Now this looks like a win for DFG. this damage expects you to hit your DFG before everything else on a 1350 hp champ.

Well this is only burst damage , now i'm gonna show you the continuus dps of your spells.
DC:
Cooldowns:
Tibbers 120 secs; Disintegrate 4 secs; Incinerate 8 secs
Damage:
Tibbers 127; Disintegrate 136; Incinerate 145,6 ; Tibbers AOE 36

DFG:
Cooldowns:
Tibbers 102 Seconds; Disintegrate 3,4 seconds ; Incinerate: 6,8 Seconds ; DFG 60 seconds
Damage:
Tibbers 42; Disintegrate 45; Incinerate 48; Tibbers AOE 12; DFG 440 Damage

Base damage of skills:
Tibbers 450 + 35 AoE
Incinerate 285
Disintegrate 250

Alright now:
Deathcap:
Damage in 120 secs:
1 time tibbers; 15 Incinerate; 30 Disintegrate
1* (450+127+45*(12+35))+15*(285+145,6)+30*(250+136)
= 2692+6459+11580 = 20731 damage in 120 seconds=172,75 damage per second

DFG
Damage in 120 seconds:
1,2* Tibbers ; 35,3*Disintegrate ; 17,65*Incinerate ; 2* DFG
1,2*(450+42+45*(35+12))+35,3*(250+45)+17,65*(285+4 8)+2* 440
=3128,4+10413,5+5877,45+880=20299 damage in 120 seconds= 169,158 damage per second

As you can see DC is giving you a bit more constant damage than DFG.

Result:
DFG is better for bursting single targets, while DC is for better and more continuus damage (especially more AOE)
The Reason why DC is better than DFG is, that it boost the effect of other items too.
That's why people generally pick it over a DFG ^^

So DFG isn't a bad item. i'd say if you want it you should start with a kage's and then buy deathcap, later upgrading the kage's into DFG.
This grants you the 5gold per 10 passive for longer and you still get DFG not that late ^^
!!!WARNING!!! you will have tons of burst damage, but if you build this way you won't have any defence, and not the utility that other ap items provide (spellvamp, slow etc.)

It's up to you to decide ^^
Of course the math has to be done again for every char, but i picked annie as an example, as annie is pretty much what you would say a Standard caster (even though she's one of the best ^^)

Also for Veigar:
DFG is pretty nice for him, but DC actually let's him get 1,3 Ap per lasthit, so again it's up to you to decide ^^


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KSer and Feeder

Senior Member

13-07-2011

wow, thks for the in-depth math ^^ sadly I don't have malzahar yet either, so can't test it... pretty interesting how the DFG is almost on par with the DC in dps as well...

will try and see how kassadin works with it too lazy to do the math for him ^^'


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kabangbang

Junior Member

18-07-2011

Quote:
(btw, can u use DFG when ulti-ing with Malzh? I know u can use Ignite...)
You can use it with Malz ultimate as well as ignite (as you know).